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Steak stays on the menu and at reasonable prices. This is the hill I die on.

This is the hill I die on.

This is the hill I die on.

At least we know where the steak will come from...

This is the hill I die on. At least we know where the steak will come from...

This is the hill I die on.

This is the hill I die on.

At least we know where the steak will come from...

I believe you mean where the ham, humanchops, and Bacon come from

These days, the high ground is simply an exposed, unsupported position.

I suspect most people would rather go vegetarian than start eating insects. Especially commercially produced insects in some weird nightmare farm factory. It seems so unnecessary. I'll eat tofu or whatever for some of my meals so I can still have steak and chicken once in a while. It's not so hard to adapt that I "need' to have cricket legs in my food.

I suspect most people would rather go vegetarian than start eating insects.

I suspect most people would rather go vegetarian than start eating insects.

Wait 'til you try them, you'll be begging for more.

"Tasty" doesn't even begin to describe them, and they always have that crunch that's so difficult to get just right in bacon.

The desirable thing in the bacon is the flavor of the seared outside and the rendered fat... the crunch is just an indicator you got there. Insects lack all that goodness. It is all crunch and the bad kind that gets stuck between your teeth like someone ate a bunch of shrimp, meticulously squeezing all the meat out of the deep tail and you grab a handful of the discarded shells and eat them.

Nope, they'll just have to find their cuts elsewhere because I and I think most people are not willing to give up beef. Especially with the ecological impact of growing those vegetables.

I don't even like beef that much. I'd rather have a pork chop than a steak. My wife is the main reason I still buy red meat.

Now rabbit, there's something that is tasty and fairly efficient in terms of feed to meat ratio. Anyone could raise them in a hutch, but I think most people are squeamish about preparing them.

Do you slaughter your own rabbit. Personally I have always found you a bit trolling but if you tell me you self - slaughtering, well then I gained a lot perspective for your life style -- no matter other differences.

It's been many years since I've slaughtered game. I haven't done it since I moved. I do buy fresh chickens and rabbits from time to time (I hate plucking chickens compared to skinning rabbit). Heads and feet on my animals doesn't bother me. Funny thing is people often don't have a problem with catching and killing fish. They have heads and eyes on them too. I worry people anthropomorphize with species that a morphically similar to humans.

I would draw a distinction between trolling and challenging people's a

I can't really get behind that. Pork chops can be tasty, in which case they've got bones and gristle through them making them a pain to eat or they can be as tasteless as chicken (center cut loin) and still have an annoying band around the edge. Rabbit is roughly on a level with chicken breast/center cut pork loin. Basically to get flavor out of those things you need to use a bunch of salt and the fattiest bits or you need to concentrate the flavor or ideally both. Either is a nice carrier for other flavors

Don't overdo it on the rabbit meat, "rabbit starvation" sounds like a horrible way to die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

They shouldn't focus as much on meaty taste (as mentioned in the summary) and instead focus on meaty texture. That is the biggest resistance for myself and any heavy meat-eaters I have discussed this with (still anecdotal though). We appear to already have the technology to get the taste right, from my experience with a few different meat substitutes. But the texture is way off.

I'm all for plant based or even insect based meat, as long as it tastes AND feels like beef. Or pork or chicken. That is why I thin

Well, for starters those plant farms are ecological disasters as well. You are right about the texture. For the flavor... they've managed to achieve 'good enough' for low grade fast food burger with sugary dips and toppings. But they don't even remotely compare with a high quality medium 80/20 chuck patty that has been properly seasoned let alone the beef pinnacle of salt/pepper crusted prime brisket has been clean smoked Texas style for 12+hrs and had the seam fat properly rendered.

"I'm all for plant based

Steak stays on the menu and at reasonable prices. This is the hill I die on.

Steak stays on the menu and at reasonable prices. This is the hill I die on.

You're demanding that everyone else pay for your luxury food with their taxes? Half of the water used in California is used, in one way or another, for cattle farming. It's simply not really sustainable. There is a traditional argument for all the subsiding it gets to make it affordable pertaining to providing necessary nutrition. The reality is though that there are much more affordable and sustainable ways to get that nutrition. So if there are alternatives that people will eat, steak should be required t

Many cultures around the world include insects in their diet.

Many cultures around the world include insects in their diet.

There's also cultures that live in huts and suffer from neglected diseases, too. It doesn't mean most people would want to live like that if given the choice. I'm sure if these cultures had access to meat the way we do in western society, they'd ditch the bugs too.

I'm sure if these cultures had access to meat the way we do in western society, they'd ditch the bugs too.

I'm sure if these cultures had access to meat the way we do in western society, they'd ditch the bugs too.

Errr they do. Basically every place I've ever seen insects offered on the menu also offer something that would appease your biased view on what is and isn't eaten.

You're begging the question with your post that postulates that people eat bugs because there's no other alternative. Heck last time I ate mealworms and grasshoppers I was tossing up between that or a smoked salmon burger. The girlfriend wasn't as keen, she had a smoked chicken burger.

It blows my mind that people would find the thought of eating bugs disgusting while also paying a premium for shrimp. What are they if not the bugs of the sea?

I dunno about you, but the first thing I do before cooking my shrimp is devein them. Last I checked you can't remove a bug's poopchute.

I dunno about you, but the first thing I do before cooking my shrimp is devein them. Last I checked you can't remove a bug's poopchute.

I dunno about you, but the first thing I do before cooking my shrimp is devein them. Last I checked you can't remove a bug's poopchute.

Dunno about a lot of people. I personally devein prawns, but shrimp are too small to meaningfully do that. In many places (both Asian and western) shrimp are eaten whole. And again it comes down to personal taste and sensibilities rather than what is or isn't available.

Example: I was enjoying a nice seafood and chips platter at Sydney dockside with a Vietnamese friend of mine. She was amazed that I didn't eat the prawn heads, and asked if she could have mine. The option was there for her *not* to, there was

Ones pallet is highly influenced by ones bringing, and mostly IMO the first 5 years.

IE picky eaters where shaped early in life, and hard to reshape. But peoples pallets do also shape a bit as they get older. But there are quite a few foods if you don't grow up eating people will never like.

SkerpikjÃt, hagis, chipotle, and even squashes/sweet potatoes/yams.

Never mind the mind games of ew it's a bug.

PS. most bug farms are also infested with various parasites with a sizable amount capable or do cause iss

There's also cultures that live in huts and suffer from neglected diseases, too. It doesn't mean most people would want to live like that if given the choice. I'm sure if these cultures had access to meat the way we do in western society, they'd ditch the bugs too.

There's also cultures that live in huts and suffer from neglected diseases, too. It doesn't mean most people would want to live like that if given the choice. I'm sure if these cultures had access to meat the way we do in western society, they'd ditch the bugs too.

How is this insightful? All you have said is you imply cultures which aren't different than you must be some kind of undeveloped backwater country. The second largest economy in the world has a culture where eating insects is common. Not only as bare subsistence eating, but in restaurants. I don't have statistics on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the world's middle class is comfortable eating insects. The west does not represent the entire world.

This coming from someone who is a very whi

I grew up in Korea eating silk worms [wikipedia.org]. Kids loved it so much they made crackers shaped like the worms. Now that I've lived in the Western world for most of my life, I'm not sure I will ever eat it again, but I do remember that it was very tasty. My point is I don't think anybody would say South Korea didn't/doesn't have access to meat.

Tastes change as you age too.

I mean, I grew up here in the US and as a kid, I LOVED eating cold Vienna sausages out of the can, dunked in mustard.

Do these cultures include insects in their diets willingly? I doubt it.

There were reports of people having feelings of dread or fear from iPhone models with three camera lenses, and they didn't know why. Psychologists figured it out, the lenses packed in a triangle looked like bug eyes or insect nests. Maybe this fear was learned by people being stung by an insect. That fear though still has an instinctual aspect because that kind of fear can't get so deep into our minds without some "pre-wired" pathway

70% of the food I make already comes from cultures other than the excessively white world into which I was born. Why not? People eat cabbage, for fuck sake - even people rich enough to not have to eat cabbage. Insects are not an uncommon food in the world. I'll absolutely give it a shot.

70% of the food I make already comes from cultures other than the excessively white world into which I was born. Why not? People eat cabbage, for fuck sake - even people rich enough to not have to eat cabbage. Insects are not an uncommon food in the world. I'll absolutely give it a shot.

70% of the food I make already comes from cultures other than the excessively white world into which I was born. Why not? People eat cabbage, for fuck sake - even people rich enough to not have to eat cabbage. Insects are not an uncommon food in the world. I'll absolutely give it a shot.

If it is healthier than other forms, safe to eat, and preferably more nutritious, I'll agree, why not?

Like all the genetic material called 'caviar' that rich people claim is worth more than gold in some cases?

Weird that the comment was received poorly. According to 23 and me, my makeup is staggeringly European (centered in the British Isles), with 0.5% native American in the mix. That means my culinary background is very traditionally Western European.

There's nothing wrong with saying I'm white, and that my learned diet is white - it's perfectly descriptive, and carries no negative connotations that I'm aware of. I'm having beef tenderloin for dinner, using very French techniques. When I say "white food" what c

Indeed. What a douche. Perhaps he should eat the massive chip on his shoulder before he eats the insects.

My genetic makeup comes from four continents. My ethnicity was *chosen* and *adopted* more than *inherited*. I may appear to be a bit pale, but that's only because the African and American sides of the family are minorities to the European and Asian sides of my family (that and those genes are recessive anyway).

I am very tired of people much richer than I am lecture me on how "privileged" I must be to have white skin. I'd love to find this great white homeland where white people are neve

Why in heaven's name did you think I was disparaging the food I was born into? That is not what I meant. Nothing bland about it - it's just different. And my preference is for a wider variety than what I was surrounded with growing up.

In case the math escapes you, 30% of what I do cook and eat is western. Would it be that high if my opinion of it were low?

I saw a TED Talk some time ago on how grazing animals are holding back the deserts. If this works then we could turn large desert areas into land that produce meat and sequester carbon into the soil. https://www.ted.com/talks/alla... [ted.com]

I reject the notion that we "need" to eat insects to "save the planet". The "planet" survived climate change before, it is human civilization that would suffer. Even the worst predictions of sea level rise and global warming tell us the equatorial zones will continue to have rain forests and savannas. They won't really change much because they are already hit with plenty of sun, and either an abundance or absence of water. What we could do though is manage the grazing of large animals to aid in the spread of plants that can hold water and carbon in the soil. These animals will produce meat. Eating meat isn't a problem, it is how meat is produced currently.

We can grow meat in ways that aid in reducing global warming. I say we work on that before we give up and start eating insects. There's a lot of deserts in the world we could potentially shift to grazing areas for cattle. Just huge sections of Asia, Africa, and Australia look like potential places to try.

This is currently done in the sand dunes Nebraska and other parts of the country which would, otherwise, be desert.

This area used to be host to massive herds of Bison and accompanying predators and so on. Disease wiped the bison out over 100 years ago, and -something- needs to roam those sands or the land quickly reverts to desert.

Regular, infrequent (ie not over-grazing) cattle grazing has effectively prevented western Nebraska and large parts of Wyoming from turning into a continuous desert.

If we get to the point of worst predictions there won't be any rainforests left after the human race nukes itself to and the planet into oblivion fighting a war for resources as billions of climate refugees stress our nations.

Make no mistake, humans suffering on a global scale will not end well for the planet.

The human race isn't going to "nuke itself into oblivion" fighting resource wars. That's because nuclear power is far more valuable as an energy source than as a weapon to take over coal mines and petroleum wells. Nuclear power can be used to desalinate water, then pump that water far inland for irrigation. Building nuclear weapons to take over croplands is counterproductive because the land would be contaminated with fission products for months to years.

Humans may "nuke itself into oblivion" but it won'

"It's okay to put vegetables in my food, but hide them." - Tony

It seems to me that unidentifiable but tasty ground meats like "taco meat" are a great candidate for partial or complete insectification.

You can also use cricket flour to bake things that people will find tasty without noticing that it's bugs.

It seems to me that unidentifiable but tasty ground meats like "taco meat" are a great candidate for partial or complete insectification.

It seems to me that unidentifiable but tasty ground meats like "taco meat" are a great candidate for partial or complete insectification.

Taco Bell is way ahead of you there...

But seriously folks, it's Grade F "meat". It comes in a white plastic bucket. Ground mealworm might actually be an improvement.

You know, maybe there is something to that conspiracy theory that we are controlled by shape-shifting aliens of some sort. That's the only explanation for this whole "how about some tasty bugs?" thing.

Chocolate and Chocolate Liquor Insect filth (AOAC 965.38) Average is 60 or more insect fragments per 100 grams when 6 100-gram subsamples are examined OR Any 1 subsample contains 90 or more insect fragments Rodent filth (AOAC 965.38) Average is 1 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams in 6 100-gram subsamples examined OR Any 1 subsample contains 3 or more rodent hairs Shell (AOAC 968.10-970.23) For chocolate liquor, if the shell is in excess of 2% calculated on the basis of alkali-free nibs DEFECT SOURCE: Insect fragments - post harvest and/or processing insect infestation, Rodent hair - post harvest and/or processing contamination with animal hair or excreta, Shell - processing contamination Significance: Aesthetic

Chocolate and Chocolate Liquor Insect filth (AOAC 965.38) Average is 60 or more insect fragments per 100 grams when 6 100-gram subsamples are examined OR Any 1 subsample contains 90 or more insect fragments Rodent filth (AOAC 965.38) Average is 1 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams in 6 100-gram subsamples examined OR Any 1 subsample contains 3 or more rodent hairs Shell (AOAC 968.10-970.23) For chocolate liquor, if the shell is in excess of 2% calculated on the basis of alkali-free nibs DEFECT SOURCE: Insect fragments - post harvest and/or processing insect infestation, Rodent hair - post harvest and/or processing contamination with animal hair or excreta, Shell - processing contamination Significance: Aesthetic

You are competing with animal feed, and they don't have to make it so fancy for them as they do for you.

You are competing with animal feed, and they don't have to make it so fancy for them as they do for you.

You are competing with animal feed, and they don't have to make it so fancy for them as they do for you.

Interesting. Can you elaborate about the animal feed part? I'd love to learn more.

I'd love to eat less protein shakes that taste like ice cream and have a ton of sucralose(it's nice at first, but gets old and weird after your 100th shake). Whey is NASTY raw...really gross stuff.

I'd love to eat less protein shakes that taste like ice cream and have a ton of sucralose(it's nice at first, but gets old and weird after your 100th shake). Whey is NASTY raw...really gross stuff.

You are probably not getting enough leucine, it's an essential amino acid, and it's not present in whey protein. If you have protein without it, then it's as you describe: nice at first, but old after the 100th. You should either consider getting a different protein with leucine (like BSN, nice flavor [amazon.com]), or getting some BCAAs or even raw leucine [amazon.com] and adding it to your shake. I'd recommend the BSN, though, it comes with leucine.

Doesn't it seem a bit disingenuous to continuously come back to beating the long-punctured drum of "greenhouse gases", often lumping simple CO2 and methane in with more harmful things like chlorine?

"Greenhouse gasses" (CO2) are: * not bad for the environment. Plants need CO2 to produce oxygen. * not destroying ozone. * not detrimental to life, but necessary. * higher now than at any time historically. It's almost like they've got ulterior motives and aren't telling you everything.

Let's ignore, for a second, tha

"Greenhouse gasses" (CO2) are: * not bad for the environment. Plants need CO2 to produce oxygen.

"Greenhouse gasses" (CO2) are: * not bad for the environment. Plants need CO2 to produce oxygen.

GHGs are not limited to CO2. CO2 at these levels (and higher) has a variety of negative effects including their greenhouse potential.

Some GHGs are in fact destroying ozone.

* not detrimental to life, but necessary.

* not detrimental to life, but necessary.

Necessary for plant life, yet detrimental to non-plant life at levels we're reaching already, let alone expect to reach.

* higher now than at any time historically.

* higher now than at any time historically.

That's why they are a problem, CO2 in particular. It's been this high before, but conditions then wouldn't have supported human civilization.

Textured vegetable protein has a problem with texture, allergens and off flavors far more than lack of meaty taste. Most meat dishes are dominated by non meat flavors any way.

That said, I can live with the off flavor but I'd like some high moisture extruded textured protein which isn't soy.

No thanks. I eat meat to eat meat. Not something with a meat-like flavour. I'll eat vat-grown meat before I start eating insects.

I see that Project MEEB is still active. Good to know. Kinda miss working on it. Transfered over to MEWB [kxii.com] (Make 'Em Worship the Beast). Not as fun. I thought there would be more baby roasts and orgies.

I think McDonald's has already used this technique. I don't see how the McRib could be made of actual meat.

Scientists are already worried about insect extinctions.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/... [sciencedirect.com]

While farming insects could help certain specific desirable species, it's hard to see an upside for those not considered "tasty."

If it hasn't caught on by now, it's hard to see it catching on any time soon.

If it hasn't caught on in China, where they will eat almost anything, it aint gonna.

A meat substitute you can't blame on us vegans.

Plant-based burgers starting to sound a bit more appetizing now? =)

I have no children, can I also eat out of styrofoam containers?

As someone who won't eat shrimp unless it's butterflied and cleaned properly ... How do you clean out the digestive tract of millions of mealworms? Are they planning to feed us mealworms with their shit still inside them?

Meat does it already pretty well, ya know...

It's true that insects take less resources than meat [smithsonianmag.com]. But pretty soon, factory meat will be an option, and I'd rather have that.

What I mean by "factory meat" is meat convinced to grow in a factory. People are working right now on getting meat to grow in vitro at scale. People are also working on meat substitutes that are easy to make at scale.

According to Tony Seba, meat agriculture is about to be disrupted by the new factory meat technologies.

The first disruption will be dairy farmers, who are already n

If you eat something containing red food colouring (carmine aka E 120), you're already eating cochineal beetles. Bon apetit!

You're probably eating bug(bits) every day, just not knowingly. Chocolate, for example, is legally allowed to contain an X amount of them per gram (depending on the country).

No, i'm not going to eat the bugs voluntarily, either.

In fact, there was a scientific paper [plos.org] with exactly that finding recently.

I imagine eating bugs is a lot like eating shrimp, crawdads, lobsters or crabs. They all look like giant bugs that happen to be really tasty to me.

I imagine eating bugs is a lot like eating shrimp, crawdads, lobsters or crabs.

I imagine eating bugs is a lot like eating shrimp, crawdads, lobsters or crabs.

The difference is that the Sea Bugs (yes, that's what I call them, much to my lovely wife's consternation) have real flesh under those shells. Meat. Peel that shell off of that lobster tail, and it's visible muscle you can cut with a knife. Chomp a cricket, and there's a bunch of gooey paste inside. THAT'S the big difference; internal tissue with a meaty texture, vs internal tissue with the consistency of snot.

I love my seafood too (hell, I live in New Orleans for a reason)....

But, no, I'm not switching to bugs to save a few degrees of temperature rise.

Life is too short for me not to enjoy myself while I'm here.

Amusingly, if you treat Alex Jones as a CIA plant who says outrageous things to discredit all the other stuff he says and ended up being right about until it's too late to do anything about it, suddenly his schtick makes a lot more sense.

Regardless, I am not eating bugs.

Regardless, I am not eating bugs.

Hate to break it to you, but there are already bugs in your food, like mealworms in flour -- which can be mitigated by storing flour in the freezer. The Government even has rules about acceptable levels. Food Defect Levels Handbook [fda.gov]

Other articles can be found by Googling: acceptable level insects in food [google.com] -- 9 Disgusting Things That the FDA Allows in Your Food [livescience.com] -- Bugs, rodent hair and poop: How much is legally allowed in the food you eat every day? [cnn.com]

I have a small bag of roasted, ground Cricket Flour (Powder) [amazon.com] for mixing in things and it's tasty -- and a little crunchy. :-)

Hate to break it to you, but there are already bugs in your food, like mealworms in flour -- which can be mitigated by storing flour in the freezer. The Government even has rules about acceptable levels. Food Defect Levels Handbook [fda.gov]

Hate to break it to you, but there are already bugs in your food, like mealworms in flour -- which can be mitigated by storing flour in the freezer. The Government even has rules about acceptable levels. Food Defect Levels Handbook [fda.gov]

Not to mention bugs used to make food dyes and shellac in candies, fruit varnishes, cereals, etc. Then, of course there's honey, which is bees take in as nectar, store in their bodies, then spit back out and which also inevitably contains bee body parts before they are strained out. Eating bugs is just a fact of life. People are allowed their tastes in food, of course, but it's a little juvenile. I wonder if the GP also refuses to eat vegetables on principle.

Our hunter / gatherer roots hunted mammals that graze

Our hunter / gatherer roots hunted mammals that graze

On Klendathu, bugs eat you!

. Unlike an animal, there isnt a muscular part that is isolated. You eat the whole bug, body and all. Thats just gross.

. Unlike an animal, there isnt a muscular part that is isolated. You eat the whole bug, body and all. Thats just gross.

Aren't hotdogs (and potted meat, haggis, etc..) pretty much the whole animal minus the muscular part that was isolated (along with bones and hide)?

Our hunter / gatherer roots hunted mammals that graze.

Our hunter / gatherer roots hunted mammals that graze.

Why did you bother to use the phrase "hunter / gatherer" and then only talk about the hunter part? Or do you truly not know what all they gathered? Your hunter / gatherer roots hunted mammals AND munched crickets, grub larva from decaying logs and fruits/vegetables.

Heating to 120 C for 10 minutes kills every known parasite and nearly all living organisms except for some really weird ones that pose no threat to humans.

Properly roasted, yes. The Kalapuya of the Willamette Valley knew this- katydids and grasshoppers, whenever found, had a fire lit in a circle around them.....burnt in to the middle then they just picked them up and ate them like popcorn.

it's being said that insects harbor parasites poisonous to humans, even in farmed populations.

it's being said that insects harbor parasites poisonous to humans, even in farmed populations.

So does literally every other type meat, but we cope with it and control it quite well when we farm for human consumption.

Yes, another right-wing conspiracy theory that has been proven false.

FACT-CHECK: The world economic forum is NOT pushing people to eat insects. The world economic forum acknowledges that people WANT to eat insects and are just addressing the demand. Therefore we rate that WEF is "pushing" insect as FALSE.

"Why we need to give insects the role they deserve in our food systems" https://www.weforum.org/agenda... [weforum.org]

"5 reasons why eating insects could reduce climate change" https://www.weforum.org/agenda... [weforum.org]

"Good grub: why we might be eating insects soon" https://www.weforum.org/agenda... [weforum.org]

Fact-Check is null and void. Decades of misuse by one side to ridicule and silence the other side -- which they see as "Undesirable" -- has rendered it impotent. This much is obvious even right now.

I note every single link you posted is from the WEF itself. Did you really think that would persuade? Nay. All that does is increase the mistrust people feel against such organizations

Race card's been cancelled too for the same reason -- used as a cudgel to silence others, for far too long. Now the louder p

god you great reset people are such wah wah babby snowflakes. these are the people that think theyre gonna overthrow anything or survive any apocalypse? you people are the most dependant on the status quo and the most afraid of any change. real soyboy behavior

god you great reset people are such wah wah babby snowflakes.

god you great reset people are such wah wah babby snowflakes.

Okay. Eat shit and Die, then.

I don't like eating rich food. :)

I think we're talking about the same people.

Some people make money only because they already have money. Not a single box lifted or ditch dug by their own hands. Very few of the rich manage their own investments either. They hire advisors to help them make informed decisions, often so informed that the question is a binary: Make money Y/N?

The bugs have more protein. If they taste like meat, they'll be a better replacement for meat than plants... especially if they're more digestible for those of us who cannot digest TVP, tofu, etc.

Let's add some meal nuggets to the McDonald's menu and see how it goes. It can't be any worse than pink slime...

I don't eat at McD's either, lol.

I like to cook for myself, and when I do dine out, I usually save up and drop some serious coin on a real restaurant with wine service and menu items that are beyond what I'm in the mood to spend time cooking.

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